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Understanding the modern HeartBeat (HB) options

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New poster

Re: Understanding the modern HeartBeat (HB) options

Good day Good people,

I have been struggling getting heartbeat to work on my Xtra View setup.

Equipment in use:
1 x Smart LNB (3 unicable + 1 universal ports) 
1 x Explora Model 2A (latest software) runs as a primary decoder
2 x Single View HD Decoder, Model 4u and Model 5u both Secondary.
1 x Diplexer/Mixer/Demixer
Cables etc.

Current Installation:
- 3 cables run from Smart LNB to each Decoder, all from Unicable Connection, nothing from Univ.
- Decoders all set to different frequencies in order to avoid interference.
- Diplexer connected to the Model 5u decoder to give it two connections. SAT (DC) from LNB, IN/OUT connected to LNB IN on on Decoder and Terrestrial feeding back to RF IN on Primary Decoder. The latter supposed to be heartbeat.
- Model 4u: LNB IN from SMARTLNB, and RF out to RF out on Primary Decoder, the latter being heart beat.

All 3 decoders in 3 different rooms but only one plays all channels, Primary and two Single View "waiting for comms from primary"

Please assist, the installer guy reckons I'm too remote and I feel that I'm closer to the solution.
 
PS: All decoders run on latest software making in immaterial whether it is RF IN to In or Out to Out I'm told. Some Miltichoice technical consultants just tell me to bring in the Accredited Installer, who is nowhere close to where I live but was helpful over the phone.
 
 
 
 
New poster

Re: Understanding the modern HeartBeat (HB) options

Good day Sir,

I have been struggling getting heartbeat to work on my Xtra View setup.

Equipment in use:
1 x Smart LNB (3 unicable + 1 universal ports) 
1 x Explora Model 2A (latest software) runs as a primary decoder
2 x Single View HD Decoder, Model 4u and Model 5u both Secondary.
1 x Diplexer/Mixer/Demixer
Cables etc.

Current Installation:
- 3 cables run from Smart LNB to each Decoder, all from Unicable Connection, nothing from Univ.
- Decoders all set to different frequencies in order to avoid interference.
- Diplexer connected to the Model 5u decoder to give it two connections. SAT (DC) from LNB, IN/OUT connected to LNB IN on on Decoder and Terrestrial feeding back to RF IN on Primary Decoder. The latter supposed to be heartbeat.
- Model 4u: LNB IN from SMARTLNB, and RF out to RF out on Primary Decoder, the latter being heart beat.

All 3 decoders in 3 different rooms but only one plays all channels, Primary and two Single View "waiting for comms from primary"

Please assist, the installer guy reckons I'm too remote and I feel that I'm closer to the solution.
 
PS: All decoders run on latest software making in immaterial whether it is RF IN to In or Out to Out I'm told. Some Miltichoice technical consultants just tell me to bring in the Accredited Installer, who is nowhere close to where I live.

@Optimist wrote:

@GeoffD  and I have been discussing some of this quite extensively, so I'll post some of what I understand and he'll add anything needed.

I'm also hoping @MCA-David  will contribute (TIA).

 

There's 3 basic systems.

1. Standard RF port and cabling HB.

2. SLNB HB (I think it is a native system on the Explora 2A only).

3. UniView (Exploras 2A & 3A, and 5 series decoders only) which is also natively delivered via SLNB.

 

As I think we understand it;

2. SLNB HB must be at the higher satellite related IF frequencies (IF is quite a bit lower than satellite itself, but still higher than the RF (up to UHF) range.)

This is presumed as the decoders that use it still also deliver or receive HB on RF (...UHF) as a separate additional option.

3. Uniview HB is presumed to be at RF (...UHF) frequencies, as although it normally is combined with IF (supplied by the SLNB), it can also be separated into a RF (...UHF) connection on a diplexer for such usage.

 

 

More about diplexer use in the next post.

Highlighted
Red Carpet

Re: Understanding the modern HeartBeat (HB) options

Pretty sure the call centre knows nothing about the UV terminology --- it seems to be only used within the technical departments.  It is useful however because it helps in separating the HB via SLNB cases from the normal HB cabling method.

Octo LNB; 2 by 2x4 MS; 2 by ES 5-2; Dedicated PSU for LNB, ES's, MS's; HD PVR 4P x 2; Explora 1; DSD 660; FSM
Showmaxed

Re: Understanding the modern HeartBeat (HB) options

I've also suspected that there's only one via-SLNB/SS type of XV, but there was what appeared to be a separate distinction painted at the time of the announced launch of UV, which was some time after such initial use launched, so I'm not so sure. Perhaps MCA David will clarify, maybe you can nudge him Geoff if you have a way to.

 

AFAIK UV itself is also still called XV re the wider combination service reference.

 

(I'm not going to be around much today if there's anything more to discuss.)

Red Carpet

Re: Understanding the modern HeartBeat (HB) options

There only two options:

 

  1. ExtraView, normally abbreviated as XV, whereby up to 3 decoders, can be combined under one subscription via a cable connected to the RF ports on the decoders, also used to distribute RF signals to multiple remote view locations, and;
  2. UniView, normally abbreviated as UV, whereby an SLNB or 24-1Z switch is used to relay the HB signal between up to 3 decoders.

The choice of the method used depends on the decoder models and the types of switches and LNBs available, as well as what the RF distribution is required.

 

UniView (UV) is only possible IF either an SLNB or a 24-1Z switch is available.  The older LNBs (Quad, Quattro, Twin Universal) cannot relay HB signals.

 

The original Explora Switches (ES's) are not capable of relaying the HB signals. ES 5-1 or ES 5-2.

 

XV is possible with ALL decoder models capable of transmitting or receiving HB signals, but some models require the use of an external Diplexer.

UV is only possible with decoders equipped with an internal Diplexer, or, with older models, an external Diplexer, IF one of the 3 SLNB models is available or a 24-1Z switch is available.

 

The decision whether to use XV or UV depends on the location of the decoders and whether there is a requirement for distributing RF to multiple viewing points and whether remote control of the decoders is required from those multiple viewing points via tvLINKS.

 

None of the older decoder models can be combined in a 3-decoder combination.

The SD PVR,  the HD PVR 4P, the HD PVR 4U, the HD PVR 2P and the older 11xx decoders cannot be used in a 3-decoder combination.

 

The 3-decoder combination can be any of the Explora models, as well as the 4- and 5-series HD decoders.

 

The Explora 1 and 2A both have RF IN and RF OUT ports. The 3A does not.

The 4-series HD decoders have RF IN and RF OUT ports, the 5-series does not.

 

The Explora 1 and 2A as well the 4-series HD decoders provide for HB transmission and reception via the RF ports.

The Explora 2A has an internal diplexer which supports HB (Tx & Rx) via the Unicable port.

The Explora 3A has an internal diplexer which supports HB (Tx & Rx) via the Unicable port.

The 5-series HD decoders have internal diplexers which support HB (TX & Rx) via the Unicable port.

 

tvLINK commands are relayed/received via the RF ports on the decoders with RF ports.

The Explora 3A and the 5-series decoders relay/receive tvLINK commands via the Unicable port.

BUT and here is the rub, the SLNBs and the 24-1Z do not relay tvLINK commands. (as per info received from MCA-David).

Therefore, IF tvLINK control is desired, then an old style XV connection has to be used for HB and RF distribution.

 

 

 

 

Octo LNB; 2 by 2x4 MS; 2 by ES 5-2; Dedicated PSU for LNB, ES's, MS's; HD PVR 4P x 2; Explora 1; DSD 660; FSM
Showmaxed

Re: Understanding the modern HeartBeat (HB) options


@Optimist wrote:

The last consideration is if RF (UHF) AND via-SLNB HB are needed (some 3 decoder setups).

This is ok unless Uniview-only is involved, which is why it's not recommended to use an Explora 3A as a primary in these circumstances. We are still trying to figure out how that could best be made to work anyway.


I'm thinking the following will work, if I'm right about Uniview being RF (UHF) based;

A wideband splitter on the Explora 3A decoder's LNB port, one side to the SLNB cable and the other via a diplexer to the RF (UHF) cable. This diplexer's SAT connection is ignored, or maybe terminated.

 

 

( * Note that I put "UHF" in brackets after "RF" as all frequencies are actually considered to be RF. We just use the term "RF" to mean frequencies up to and including UHF.)

Showmaxed

Re: Understanding the modern HeartBeat (HB) options

The secret to understanding diplexers;

 

The combined frequencies are always on the I/O port of the diplexer, so that is what is connected either to the LNB feed or the decoder LNB input, depending on the HB usage type need.

The connection called "SAT" goes to the other of these two choices.

The connection called "ANT" goes to the RF (UHF etc.) needs of the decoder's setup - either a RF port on the decoder, or creating a RF connection for a RF cable feed.

Both I/O options each have two usages, it depends on if the decoder being focused on is primary or secondary.

 

 

The last consideration is if RF (UHF) AND via-SLNB HB are needed (some 3 decoder setups).

This is ok unless Uniview-only is involved, which is why it's not recommended to use an Explora 3A as a primary in these circumstances. We are still trying to figure out how that could best be made to work anyway.

Showmaxed

Understanding the modern HeartBeat (HB) options

@GeoffD  and I have been discussing some of this quite extensively, so I'll post some of what I understand and he'll add anything needed.

I'm also hoping @MCA-David  will contribute (TIA).

 

There's 3 basic systems.

1. Standard RF port and cabling HB.

2. SLNB HB (I think it is a native system on the Explora 2A only).

3. UniView (Exploras 2A & 3A, and 5 series decoders only) which is also natively delivered via SLNB.

 

As I think we understand it;

2. SLNB HB must be at the higher satellite related IF frequencies (IF is quite a bit lower than satellite itself, but still higher than the RF (up to UHF) range.)

This is presumed as the decoders that use it still also deliver or receive HB on RF (...UHF) as a separate additional option.

3. Uniview HB is presumed to be at RF (...UHF) frequencies, as although it normally is combined with IF (supplied by the SLNB), it can also be separated into a RF (...UHF) connection on a diplexer for such usage.

 

 

More about diplexer use in the next post.